Cultivating Self-Acceptance, Compassion, and Empowerment - Dr. Michelle Maidenberg

Jon Coogan (00:01)
What does it take to break free from emotional blocks and lead with clarity and confidence? Join us as we delve into the ACE method with mindfulness expert, Dr. Michel Meidenberg, and discover how to transform your mindset and leadership. So first off, thank you very much for being here. I'm really enjoyed and pleasured to have you on the podcast today.

Michelle Maidenberg (00:20)
Thank you for having me.

Jon Coogan (00:21)
Very welcome. So just to give our audience a little bit of a background about yourself, I've got a little bit of a bio for you and a few of your accomplishments I wanted to read out and then just feel free to jump in or, or add if I get anything wrong. But your distinguished psychotherapist and mindfulness expert who specialise in helping individuals break through emotional barriers and live fulfilling lives. So I know you've got a private practice in Harrison, New York, and you're also a co -founder and clinical director of

through my eyes, a non -profit organization, which I'm really excited to talk to you about as well today. So your work really emphasizes the importance of mindfulness, emotional awareness, and intentional living. And you share a lot of your information through speaking engagements, blog posts, guided meditations, and obviously your private practice. So that's really a little bit about yourself. But what I like to do as well is just find out how you ended up being where you are now, really. What led you into the practice that you're doing now?

Michelle Maidenberg (01:19)
Yeah, I love that question, because I'm always fascinated by people's backgrounds, what leads them to their passions. And I think I've been thinking about that a lot over the years, and I'm understanding it more and more every day. So I think it all started way back when I was really young. My grandparents were all, there's a lot of intergenerational trauma in my life.

And my grandparents, all four of them were Holocaust survivors. And they spoke to me since I was a little child about the atrocities of the war. one grandmother in particular spoke about it in detail because she was in a concentration camp. most of her family, were exterminated by going into horrible gas chambers.

Jon Coogan (01:50)
Okay.

Michelle Maidenberg (02:14)
And she talked about her experience, you know, before the war, during the war, and she was so explicit. I didn't realize, this is interesting, because this literally came upon me a couple of years ago, I didn't realize the impact it had on me. I just always found myself to be an empath. I found myself to be a healer. I found myself to connect to people's, you know, stories. But I really think that I had such deep, and especially because I'm an empath, I had such deep.

compassion for my grandmother that it just led me into my life's work. I also, I knew I wanted to do this literally. I can't even remember when I didn't want to, when I knew I didn't want to, I just don't even remember. And I remember when I was in high school, it's so interesting. I took an AP course in psychology and I got the highest grade on the AP exam and I got an award during my graduation for psychology and literally,

I felt like I won the Academy Award. I was so excited. And I like held that, you know, that little medal as if, you know, were gold. I was so, so excited.

Jon Coogan (03:19)
Hmm.

Michelle Maidenberg (03:28)
Besides all of that, which is one layer of it, I did grow up my parents divorced when I was three years old. There was a lot of turbulence and I had a lot of adversity in my life, a lot. So I always desired to help other people always since I was really little.

Jon Coogan (03:42)
Yes.

Like you, fascinated by hearing about people's stories and looking back, that's when you realise what it is that's led you where you are now. And I can imagine having those experiences, your relatives tell you about those atrocious experiences. I can see where that empathy has come from, but what negative effects has that had growing up?

Michelle Maidenberg (04:12)
That's a good question. I don't think anybody has ever asked me that. Interestingly enough, right? So, you know, it's intergenerational trauma. I see it all over the place. I understand it so much better now, obviously, and I happen to be a trauma therapist. That's one of my specialties, interestingly enough. So I see it in so many ways. I see it in the dynamics and the communication that my grandparents had with my parents.

I see it in the way my parents parented me. I see it in their struggles and their adversity. I see it in my adversity. You know, one of the things I've discovered over the years is my coping mechanism or my adaptation over the years has been repression. That has been a huge coping mechanism for me. And I know that that is a direct result of my intergenerational trauma. I mean, my grandparents, my grandparents couldn't say, love you.

They couldn't say, love you. And you know, it's so interesting. I'm going to tell you this wonderful story because it's so meaningful. One of my grandmothers, I was on that side of the family. I'm the oldest grandchild and I had a special relationship with that grandmother. you they both, unfortunately they all died, but both of my grandmothers lived till a very, very late age, which was beautiful to have them around. One was a hundred and one was 97, which is like amazing. Yeah. So I had all four grandparents up to like a couple of years ago, which is amazing.

So my aunt especially would complain that my grandmother wouldn't say, love you. And my father always said, you know, I know she loves me. She doesn't have to say it. I don't need to hear it. And I said, and she used to complain all the time that she felt, you know, so kind of neglected in some ways because she never heard it from her own mother. And I said, I thought to myself, this is when I was a teenager. Hmm. Like, I wonder if, if you say it to her, if she could say it back.

So I thought about that and I said, you know what? I'm gonna conduct this experiment. And I did. I said it to her one day, I said, you know, I love you. And ever since then, she would say it back to me. And we said, I love you to one another. And the other thing that I wanna say about this particular grandmother is she gave me the honor of dying with me.

Jon Coogan (06:21)
Wow.

Michelle Maidenberg (06:34)
Yeah, she did. And I believe, I do believe in my heart that she gave me that honor. And what was so unbelievable about it was I was just, I was the only one in the room with her and I was holding her hand and something told me to sing to her. I don't know who, what, where. I started singing to her Hush Little Baby, which again, I don't know where that came from, you know? And.

I finished singing it and then all of a sudden, I don't know what came over me, but I started singing this Hebrew song that I knew since I was a child. Again, out of nowhere, like where I came to sing the song, I finished singing the song the moment I finished singing the song, she died. The moment. When I was at her funeral, okay, I was at her funeral and I was telling the story because I was eulogizing her. The rabbi came over to me and he said, do you know what you did?

So I said, what are you talking about? He said, do you know that song that you sang to her? Do you realize the significance of it? So I said, what are you talking about? He said, that's the song that we sing when somebody dies so that their bodies, their soul could go up to heaven and it gives them freedom to go up to heaven. was like, what? was sobbing. So like I gave her permission to let go and to, I mean, mind blowing.

Jon Coogan (07:49)
Yeah, I can understand, yeah.

Yeah, and I say it's a privilege to be able to be that one. It's a traumatic time. It's a difficult time, but to be able to be there and help somebody during that time. It is an amazing, amazing experience.

Michelle Maidenberg (08:03)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So all of the work that I do, you know, is about lifting people up, is about connecting them to their best self and living the life they want, is about, you know, really getting them to understand their stuckness because all of us, it's a universal phenomenon. We all have stuckness at some level. And because we're human and we're all flawed and we're all imperfect and

The things that I'm calling stuckness, which sounds very negative, is actually not. Because everything that we feel is a flaw is actually a benefit too. And if we come to accepting and have compassion for that part and empower that part, we could really cultivate being our best self.

Jon Coogan (08:56)
Yeah. it's that self discovery really understanding where like you say, stuckness, those issues come from and actually just try to understand those issues. And then you can, like you say, use it as a benefit, use it, use the strength from those issues in different areas. So yeah, that's something I'm really interested in speaking about. I know one of the things that you have emphasized in your work is about motion avoidance. Can you talk to us a little bit about motion avoidance?

Michelle Maidenberg (08:57)
Thank you.

Sure, sure. Yeah, I did a TED talk on circumventing emotional avoidance. So what I mean when I say that is, again, being human means we're wired to avoid negative or uncomfortable emotions. And again, that's another human phenomenon that most people don't know. And when I kind of let people know about that, I see literally there's such a relief for people to understand that our brain literally

physiologically and neurocognitively is wired to avoid discomfort. Now, why is that? Because it perceives it as danger and our brain is wired to avoid danger. Now, when I say danger, it could be actual danger, like somebody, you know, a bear chasing you, right? Or it could be perceived danger, like somebody who's socially anxious and they're in a social environment and they feel that they're being threatened in some way, right?

and discomfort now discomfort includes negative emotions. What emotions are they? Sadness, fear, helplessness, hopelessness, disappointment, frustration, anger. could go on and on. There's a lot of negative emotions and we, our brain has these masterful ways of trying to get rid of and avoid and rationalize and cut off from and repress these negative emotions. And it is.

so counterproductive. Gosh, it is so counterproductive. And not only that, what it results in is a lot of, unfortunately, self -deprecation because we have thoughts about our thoughts negative, right? We have feelings about our feelings. We have thoughts about our feelings and we have feelings about our thoughts. And it becomes this huge spiral of negativity that we can't get out of. And guess what? And I told this to a client yesterday when I was talking to a patient, said,

Do you think that you'll make incremental positive change when you're feeling low self -confidence and insecurity? Or do you think you're gonna make positive change when you feel empowered and have positive self -confidence? So we know, like in the past, tough love is a methodology that we use, like even to discipline children. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. I'm gonna give you an example that happened with my daughter.

Just today, just today. There's something that happened, I won't get into it, this past weekend. And I had a talk with her and I sat with her and I said to her, you need to take personal responsibility for this. You need to see your partner, et cetera. She's 16, by the way. She's my youngest of four. she sat with me, she spoke to me. Now she tends to be avoidant. She definitely avoids.

you know, because of shame and because because we're all again, we all are riddled with shame when we do something we don't we're not proud of, right? It makes sense. And again, shame is very purposeful and helpful because it allows us to know that we're being remote from our values. So we want to be able to be in touch with our shame. That's a good thing. That's a good thing. And you could be proud that you're feeling shameful because it means you're not leaning into your value. And that information is

Critical I don't care what you're dealing with whether it's business or relationships or anything in your life So anyway, I was telling her you know, etc. And then She you know, I asked her did you really sit down because I asked her I said, you know I think it would be great if you sat down and write wrote in your journal and kind of You know soul searched and thought about like what this meant to you why you behave that way what you know, etc And she said I promise I'm gonna do it, know, whatever

And I reminded her again, and then today I said to her, by the way, I'm just following up with you. You said twice that you were going to write about it. Did you do that? And she said, no. And I said to her, I said, you're not really taking personal responsibility like you said you would, and you tend to avoid your discomfort and negative emotions. And I said, how is that going to be helpful to you?

And she, you know, she said, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you know, right. And then I said to her, I said, I really appreciate you expressing your sorry. However, it's kind of an old story. And what sorry really is, is if you behave, right? If you behave on behalf of being your best self, and if you're behaving mindfully and thoughtfully, and you need to think about whether you've been doing that.

I said that to her and she came back to me and she you know what she said? You're right. That's what she said.

Jon Coogan (14:20)
Yeah, but that is, it is such a difficult thing to do. And I think certainly, I've got examples myself where it might be being defensive and, and like I say, can be personal life in business or anywhere else. But if somebody comes with you to a problem, I've been accused of in the past being defensive and then it's recognizing why am I being defensive and not actually taking into account, is that a legitimate concern that somebody's brought to me? And it is definitely something quite difficult to

Michelle Maidenberg (14:21)
Good afternoon.

Jon Coogan (14:47)
to get past and get past those blockages. So what are some of the steps that we can do to try and overcome those blockages?

Michelle Maidenberg (14:54)
So my whole entire book is about steps you could take because I feel like the levels by which we falter is on the spectrum. You know, it's called ace your life, which is acceptance, compassion and empowerment. And because of the way we were raised and our genetics and social culturally and who we are and, you know, across the board, there are many barriers to those things that we need to understand about ourselves and the way we live.

in order to both notice that that's happening, to both be accepting of it and to work through it. So, you know, I really teach people the steps and the skills, you know, what are the barriers, how do you integrate these skills so that you can walk through life really with a better understanding of yourself and more openness, more openness and acceptance to noticing yourself. Because it's so hard and it's so painful.

to really see ourselves. It's so painful because we're not unidimensional, we're multi -dimensional. We have parts that are wonderful and that are incredible and that are so present and are so cultivated. And then we have other parts that are so wounded and are so subconscious and are so possessed, I'm gonna call it. And those parts are really hard to lean into.

So it takes a lot of practice. know for myself, I struggle with that too. I have to tell you as much as right. Like the other day I was going through something and I felt the pain and I was doing everything to not feel the pain. I felt myself distracting from it. Literally. I was like going on Instagram. I was like, you know, playing with my dog. was whatever to not feel it. And I said, you know what? I literally stopped. I looked at myself in the mirror and I'm like,

You gotta sit with this. And I sat down and I was sobbing and it was so painful. But when I got out of it and when I was able to like really come back to myself, right? And it didn't take all that long because I do it a lot. I was, I felt so empowered and I was like, no, I'm okay. Yes, I'm going through a hard situation and circumstance right now, but I'm okay. You know, and the example is

You know, we are the sky. We are the sky. The sky has all of these things coming out of it. Rain, sleet, hail, snow, et cetera, right? But we never question the sky. We never say, the sky okay? Is it gonna survive the hail and the rain and the sleet? No, we know that it could have all of these things coming out of it and the sky is intact. And that is who we are. We could have all these emotions. We could have all these circumstances. We could have all of these...

diversities, but we fundamentally are okay. And to really feel grounded in that is a gift.

Jon Coogan (17:54)
Peace.

Yeah, it's a wonderful analogy and one I've not heard before. And one of things you did talk about was sitting with it when you're in those moments and you're rather than avoiding the problem, but sitting in those motions. What's that actually mean? What's that look like and what can you do to...

Michelle Maidenberg (18:15)
Yeah, so good question too. You know, sitting with it could mean a lot of different things. And I always talk about doing it incrementally. Because what ends up happening is, you know, our avoidance is front and center. And what could happen is it's almost, you know, I'm going to use another analogy. I love analogies. But, you know, people are all gung ho about working out, right? Like, especially New Year's resolution.

They say, it's a new year. I'm going to work out. I'm going to be healthy. I'm going to go to the gym. I'm going to do this. And what do people do? They go head first. They sign up for a gym, and they go, and they spend like two hours, and they're doing all this stuff. And then they walk out. And guess what? They're Charlie Horse. Their muscles ache. They feel like the wind was knocked out of them, et cetera. And you know what happens? They never go back.

because they went too quick, too fast and got scared away. And that's what we do. We're like, we get all gung ho and inspired and then we like go full speed ahead and then we back out because our minds and body, they don't work as quick as sometimes we want them to. And we need to get on board. So if you're starting a workout regimen, you have to do it slowly. You have to do it incrementally.

You have to also have patience because your body's not gonna respond overnight. It's gonna take months till you see muscle definition, till you see metabolic change, et cetera. Same thing with our nervous system. When you're sitting with frustration or anger, know, like I am very, very comfortable with anger. Most people aren't. I'm more comfortable with anger than I am with sadness, much more.

I have learned over the years to be more comfortable with sadness. And now, because of my practice, I am actually becoming more comfortable with sadness and less comfortable with anger. Interestingly enough, I'm shifting. And again, I'm comfortable with it all because that's really, I invite all the feelings to the table. I don't like disregard or deny any of them.

but I recognize that when I have anger, it really usually is lined in sadness or frustration, right? Or disappointment. And I'm able to kind of get to those feelings so that I'm able to act in a mindful way. And the behavior is what's most important. So bottom line is you need to do it incrementally. So that could be, sometimes we have a hard time just identifying what the feeling is, right? Like when I showed up with anger,

I was convinced it's anger and that means I need to act on behalf of it and I need to express myself and I need to let the person know that I was disrespected and whatever else came up with that. No, no, sometimes I just need to sit with it because they're being human just like I am and that's okay and I could be compassionate and I could be forgiving and I could be loving and I could also extend myself because sometimes they extend themselves to me.

Right? I don't have to, and we have this sense also, we're kind of acculturated to believe if we have a feeling that we need to react to it. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. That is such an important lesson to learn. We don't have to act on every thought and feeling we have. Actually, it's more beneficial for us to sit with it and understand it and notice it and then behave. So, you know, like I said, there's,

there's thousands and thousands of different experiential kind of exercises. again, all of it is in my book, but what you could do to actually learn to sit with that, know, sometimes it's kind of noticing what feeling is coming up. So like, if I say to myself, I'm feeling so angry. I feel it in my face. My face is hot. I feel it like in my body. Like, what am I sad about right now? What am I disappointed by? And I sit.

and then I notice what that is and then I'll become sad and I'll maybe cry, right? Or I'll, you know, feel whatever. And then I'll say, what does this mean to me? And how is it impacting me? You know, and just taking even those five minutes, going for a mindful walk, right? And letting the feeling saturate my body, you know? Having a mature discussion with somebody about my feelings, not.

accusing them or blaming them or yelling at them, right? But like expressing it like, I feel this way, not you made me feel this way. Or I got triggered, not you triggered me. Yeah, there's so many different ways to do that. Yeah.

Jon Coogan (23:09)
Yeah, I and I think that's so good advice. I literally had a conversation today with my partner and it was around, might say reacting to other people's behaviors and actions and just having a real realization that most people aren't out to hurt you. Most people are actually good people and have good intentions and it's just down to perception and what your expectations are. And it's when your expectations aren't met.

Michelle Maidenberg (23:33)
thousand percent.

Jon Coogan (23:37)
that's where a lot of that conflict comes in. So it is a really good idea to sit with it and just let those feelings sit, have a record, recognizance of what's actually happening and where the other person might be coming from. I think one of the questions I was going to ask about, which might not be the right question, is around how we leave those past negative experiences behind to create a better life. And I'm not sure if it is about leaving them behind or embracing them or what would your thoughts be around that?

Michelle Maidenberg (23:41)
I was like.

I'm so glad that you said that because that means you get what I'm saying. Yeah. So which, which I, I, I'm thinking I taught you something today. Maybe. Yes. So it's, it's not leaving it behind. We can't, even if you wanted to leave it behind, you couldn't. If I said to you, right. And we say this to people, stop being so negative or why are you thinking that way? Or stop thinking and feeling the way you do. Guess what?

You can't even if I ask you to, because your brain needs you to. Because your brain is telling you that you have to remember this to make sure this never happens again. So as much as I tell you not to think about something, right? And I could give so many examples where you'll laugh, but like, if I tell you not to think about something, that's what you're going to think about. Because your brain is going to remember it in order for you to forget it. So it's not going to let you forget it. That's just the way our brain works.

So if you know anything about our neurophysiology, you'll know that it's impossible to do that. Right? So it's not about leaving negativity behind. Negativity is our portal to our values. There's pain and values and values and pain. If something rubs up against our values, we're going to be in pain. If we're in pain, there's something rubbing up against our values.

It's part of understanding that so that you act in a mindful way. Because what's most important is your behavior. Your thoughts and feelings are inconsequential to some extent, you know? And I have a sign on my door. It says, don't believe everything you think. We can't trust our thoughts and feelings. They're predicated on so many different factors that we can't really trust them because they're like part of our subconscious and our unconscious.

And I know when I have certain reactions and I really sit with it, I realize that that's my little Michelle. That's totally my little Michelle. You know, when I'm feeling disempowered or I'm feeling rejected or I'm feeling insecure, that is my little Michelle because Michelle today, no, like I am again, I still have my insecurities. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but my true self who I am at my core today is recognizing that I am empowered.

recognizing that I can make choices, recognizing that I do have more power and control than I ever had before. And I lose sight of that sometimes because I'm so deeply emotional and I have certain thoughts and feelings that come up that I literally lose sight of it as if I can't even recognize that. There's a smoke screen that gets in the way of me actually recognizing that about myself, which is amazing.

It's like pretty amazing how our brain is so powerful.

Jon Coogan (27:06)
And with that thought, we've talked a bit about trauma and how that affects decisions in life, whether it is personal or in business. So how do you trust your decision -makers to know whether it is a just decision?

Michelle Maidenberg (27:22)
Yeah, I love helping people with decision -making, I have to tell you. It's like my favorite, you know? Because I believe that, you know, regret and shame and guilt eats us up alive, literally. It's so prohibitive in the course of our lives. And, you know, people will always say to me, you know, they'll feel such shame and guilt over something that happened to them in the past, right?

or a way that they behaved or a decision that they made or whatever the case is. And interestingly enough, they wouldn't be where they're at today if they didn't go through what they did yesterday. It's part of your journey. It's part of the journey you need to go through in order to cultivate a different part of yourself. And by the way, any part of you that's not healed will continue showing up in your life until it is healed.

Okay, people always say to me, how come I always end up with the same type of person? Well, there's a reason for that because that person is gonna keep showing up. It's gonna keep showing up and keep showing up and keep showing up until you heal what's getting you in the position of being accepting of being with a person like that. So they're gonna come in all different shapes and forms and sizes. Trust me, they're gonna show up in all different ways.

Okay, it could start out with your parents or your mom and dad, and then it ends up with a partner. It could end up with a friend. It could end up with your child, but it's gonna keep showing up. So the healing rate always comes when you're really willing to look at yourself and really do the work, the true deep work. I forgot the last part of your question. Remind me.

Jon Coogan (29:10)
It's just around how you trust your decisions and whether they're based on previous trauma or if they are legitimate concerns or any.

Michelle Maidenberg (29:13)
Yes. So yeah, thank you. Yeah. Thank you. So in terms of decision -making specifically, if you have a core sense of and connection with your values, you're set, like you're literally set. It's a guide to your actions. Always. It's formative. And that is how I make my decisions. At all times. Again, I'm not perfect, but

I really do. And I help people make really hard decisions based on their values. It is, you know, like, again, I dedicate a whole chapter of my book to values and how to cultivate them and how to, you know, discover what they are. And I give different kinds of exercises around them. But that is definitely the portal to decision making. And by the way, when I say decision making, I'm saying in every realm of life. And I mean that.

It's like a guidebook. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. what I love about it is we recognize how when we have to make a decision, it's not as easy as I'm going to have chocolate ice cream or vanilla ice cream because that's easy, right? Usually when we are catapulted into situations where we're having this struggle to make a decision, that's because it's rubbing up against two values.

And if you frame it in that way, it's life, it's transformative. Like it is absolutely transformative.

Jon Coogan (30:50)
Is there an example you can think of at the moment where it helped put that into context?

Michelle Maidenberg (30:53)
there's so many examples. there's so many examples. So many, so many. And this happens like literally all the time. But I'll just use a parenting example just because it's an easy one. When you're a working mom, like I am, I have four kids, I'm always, always struggling with my parenting values. It's kind of, it's intrinsic in me being a working mom.

So there's always going to be occasions where I have to make a decision between work and a parenting activity or dilemma. You know what? One just came up. I'll mention it. So my third son, I have three boys and girl, my third son went off to college and it's in another state, you know? And I had to really think about whether I could take off the time, you know, to take him.

Because unfortunately, it's interesting. The drop off for him to go into his dorm was on a Monday or Tuesday. But you could pay a little extra money if you want to do it on the weekend. So I said to him, I said, my gosh, I would love to go. Could we do it on the weekend? And then I will absolutely go. And I could not take off from work for those two days for a multitude of reasons, which I don't have to get into. But anyway.

So he said to me, he got really upset and he's like, I don't wanna move in on the weekend. Nobody else is gonna be there and then I'm gonna be sitting by myself and everyone's gonna be with their parents and I'm gonna feel foolish. And that's not how I wanna move into school. And I sat there and I felt so awful. You can imagine, I felt so guilt -ridden because I was like, my gosh, he's going to school. I'm an awful mom, how could I not be there? And again, his dad was going with him. I would never leave him like.

going alone, of course. His dad was going with him. That was already secured. So I said to him, you know, and I felt terrible. I really did. I have to tell you, I was angsting so badly over it. And I sat there and I said, good for me for angsting over this. Good. I am so happy that this is not okay with me, because if this was okay with me, I would really question my parenting. But I love my son so much that I want to be there with him.

And this is emblematic of me being a kind, caring, thoughtful parent, because I want to be there with him. However, I have a value conflict. I have my son on of on the one hand, and then I have this, right, my work that I have to be. So I said, I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm going to give respect to both sets of values, because they're both so formative for me. So he went with his dad. This is what happened.

We have parenting weekend in October. So it's not so far away, you know, and I'm gonna spend time with him there and I'm gonna obviously, you know and Also, I said to him I want to be part of this process even though I can't physically be there Could you please like when you get there? Could you FaceTime me could I want to see your room? I want to meet your roommate You know, I I want to speak to you like after you have your classes I want to really be part of the process because I love you so much

And I feel terrible that I can't be there because if there was any circumstance that I could be there, I absolutely would because I love you so much. And that's what happened. And I was part of the process. so much so, he's kind of like a little bit of a quiet kid and he's not a very sharing kid. He's the one that's not very sharing. But you know what? He called me, like he called me every step of the way to include me. And that's big for him.

just was so meaningful to me because that showed me that he really understood that I wanted to be there. Yeah.

Jon Coogan (34:47)
Yeah, I can really see how, like I say, there's those conflicting ideas and thoughts and it's difficult.

Michelle Maidenberg (34:51)
Yeah, but because I was very clear about what I was struggling with and the two sets of values, I both gave myself respect and honor to feel sad and be proud of myself at the same time and also to pay homage and respect for both sets of values.

Jon Coogan (35:13)
I think a lot of people listening to this now would have exact same thoughts. They've had the same experiences. One of the things that comes to mind is where people feel they should be further along than where they are at the moment. Especially we talk a lot about business and founders on this podcast. I see a lot of people who do worry and beat themselves up about not being as far along as they feel they should be. How do we cultivate that self -acceptance and self -compassion that you're talking about?

Michelle Maidenberg (35:14)
So let see here.

Yeah, so when you say not being as far along as they want to, I think you could talk about that relative to relationships, relative to business and career, and leadership in so many different ways, because of our stuckness sometimes. It does get in the way. And I think we have to be patient with ourselves. We have to show ourselves self -compassion. We never learn to show ourselves self -compassion. It's not.

anything we learned in school, it's not anything we typically learned from our parents. We don't learn about it at all, ever. So what does that look like it mean? It means respecting and honoring your struggle. Yeah, like when I was sad about not being there, right? I was able to say, this is hard for me. And although I wish I could be with my son, right? Like,

It's okay for me to be sad about this. This is appropriate. Like it's okay. It's okay for me not to be like progressively where I want to be right in my career. It's okay. Am I walking towards it? Am I leaning into my value of success into my value of whatever it is for you, conscientiousness or whatever that may be for you. What am I doing? Because values

are action steps. They're steps you need to take on a daily basis in order to lean into being your best self. Like, are you doing something proactively, right, to advance your career? What are you doing? Right? If you're not, what's getting in the way of that? What do you need to be doing?

And sometimes you don't even know that intuitively. Sometimes you have to network or you have to ask, ask, or sometimes you have to research or sometimes there's a lot of things you may need to do in order to understand that. But are you taking those action steps or are you shutting down or are you, you know, repressing? Like what's going on for you?

Jon Coogan (37:52)
I feel it's just focusing on what has been achieved as well. think a lot of the times it is focusing on negativity and the things you haven't yet achieved. When actually there's so much to look back at that you have achieved and whether it's small steps, like you say, or if it's whatever achievements it might be, it's just recognizing those and giving yourself credit for doing what you have done.

Michelle Maidenberg (37:53)
this.

And what you're talking about is recognizing the process, not just the results. Yes, it's recognizing the process by which you are getting to where you want to go. And by the way, anything you want to do in life requires steps. Anything that you do in life requires effort. So that has to be understood too. Like, I don't know anything, whether it's...

you know, something you're trying to achieve at work, your academics, relationships. Nothing happens like by osmosis. It happens by hard work, diligence, persistence, and effort.

Jon Coogan (38:55)
And so we're speaking a lot about mindfulness and emotional wellness and you've obviously done a lot of work in this area for many years now. So what is it that continues to drive you to work in this field and what is it, what's your legacy that you want to leave in your work?

Michelle Maidenberg (38:55)
and since we've been

It's my passion. Gosh, you know, everything I do is really to help other people. Whether it's writing my blogs for Psychology Today, I'm always writing like on, you know, kind of, I just wrote on trauma and stuckness. I just wrote an article on that. Whether it's, you know, publishing my guided meditations, you know, every Thursday on YouTube, whether it's, I mean, I have an idea of another book I want to write, which I'm excited about.

but it's all about getting people through stuckness. And the reason what drives me really is the transformation that I see. Gosh, like sometimes I sit here and again, it's not about tooting my horn and et cetera. It's literally connecting with somebody's joy, contentment and satisfaction. Like I see people living the life they want to and I am blown away every single time.

Literally. When somebody comes to me, you know, and they achieve something they want to achieve. I just had this person, a medical student, she had to pass her boards, you know, to take her medical exam. And this board, and she was so pressured, you can imagine how much anxiety. It literally would make or break whether she could do the specialty that she wants to do. That's how important this board was for her.

And she was so anxious and she was getting distracted and she couldn't focus on her studying. this, like, let me tell you, this woman is brilliant. And she's like, she's a superstar. Like, I don't even know what to say about her, but she couldn't, she just couldn't do it. And we worked so hard and I helped her to really kind of notice her thoughts and to kind of practice her mindfulness and everything. And she called me and she said, can I speak to you? And she said to me, I passed. And she said,

Thank you so much. She said, you were part of my journey. And I am so appreciative that we had this time to teach me these skills so that I was able to really like pass this exam and do what I want to in life. Gosh, I mean, I tears rolling down my eyes. She said to me, I wish I could hug you. And I said, I wish I could hug you too. You know.

But gosh, the joy that it brings me that people are achieving what they want to, there's nothing like it, like literally.

Jon Coogan (41:47)
Yeah, and that's just one part of the legacy we're talking about. One of the things we haven't yet spoken about is Through My Eyes, which I would like to hear a bit more about. So could tell us a little bit more about Through My Eyes and how that came about.

Michelle Maidenberg (41:54)
Yeah.

So Through My Eyes is a nonprofit organization that I started around 10 years ago. Unfortunately, the sad thing about it is I'm going through restructuring right now. I've done over 300 videotapes. what it is, just to explain, it's the mission of the organization is to create, you know, it's basically

You know, it's a nonprofit that offers free clinically guided videotaping for chronically, medically ill individuals who want to leave a video legacy for their children and loved ones. And I've done over 300 videotapes. And so what I want to do now is I really want to offer it on a larger scale. What we used to do is we used to go to somebody's home and, you know, offer it. And now I've done it online and because of COVID actually I was forced to.

but I want to offer it nationally, internationally, because I see the benefit it provides to therapeutically, both to the person and also to the families. And there isn't anyone doing something like this. it's very specific because I offer to do it wherever the person wants to do it. it's free. Number two, number three is it is, the person who interviews is a licensed mental health professional.

And I customize each questionnaire based on the person's needs and wants. So I've come up with a questionnaire of over 200 questions and the person's able to customize it because people want to talk about all different kinds of things. And some people don't want to talk about certain things. And I respect wherever they're coming from. So, you know, I've made up a platform. The issue now is finances.

I have absolutely, I am so open to collaborating with anybody, partnering up with anybody, people joining the board. I just want to continue doing this because it is so important. The work is so important. And it really just, yeah, requires financing. And it's not even so much relatively speaking, I have to tell you, which is amazing to me. It really isn't.

you know, cause we need to market, obviously we need to market. need to kind of develop this like, you know, it platform and I have a business model. have everything like literally it's, there. You know, if there's somebody who wants to do something wonderful in this world and they have the resources, like I implore you to get in touch with me literally.

Jon Coogan (44:38)
And it is just an amazing, amazing gift for the person who is seriously ill and for the family. So yeah, it's an amazing mission that you're taking part in now.

Michelle Maidenberg (44:45)
Thank you. It's such a love for me, I can't tell you.

Jon Coogan (44:52)
Yeah, if anyone wants to find out a little bit more, whether it is about through my eyes, through your book, what's the best place to find you?

Michelle Maidenberg (44:59)
My website is the best. has all my information. It's my first and last name .com. it's www .michelle .com.

Jon Coogan (45:12)
Fantastic. Thank you very much. What I'd like to do is just leave the floor open for yourself really for one last message for listeners. Is there any one key takeaway you'd like them to take from this podcast?

Michelle Maidenberg (45:23)
Yeah, you know, I always say this, but I'm going to repeat it again. Life is so fleeting. Gosh, it is so fleeting. And every moment is important and needs to be accounted for. And we don't have time. We don't have time. We don't have tomorrow or the next day because we don't know what that's going to bring for us. And every day is worth putting in time, effort and energy into yourself and literally living your best life.

Jon Coogan (45:53)
That's amazing. Thank you very much for being on. Really enjoyed the chat and yeah, thanks for your time. Thank you.

Michelle Maidenberg (45:59)
Thank for having me on. It's so nice to meet you.